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SHOES + NEWS
Tinker, Mark & Michael : The Three-Headed Monster
words & interview_Nick DePaula
images_Zac Dubasik
To read the full Sneakerphile interview with Tinker Hatfield and Mark Smith, be sure to check out Sole Collector’s Air Jordan 2010 Issue, arriving in late February.
Knowing exactly who to give credit to is a tricky dilemma in sneakers. While I was growing up, Michael Jordan had the coolest shoes, and they were called “Jordans” after all, so as far as I knew, he made them at Nike. As I got older, the legend of a guy named Tinker Hatfield grew, and I learned that he was indeed the mastermind behind the shaping, contouring and crafting of each Air Jordan to feature a Jumpman logo during Michael’s Bulls playing days. Beginning in 1994, Mark Smith joined the team to lend his help on the Air Jordan IX, and he has also been a crucial component of the Air Jordan design equation ever since. It’s truthfully been the trio of minds that have helped to innovate, inspire and influence the entire industry.
It’s not only the feedback and honesty that the three can share amongst themselves that makes the team so powerful, but also the open-forum relationship they’ve come to develop over the years. Like any relationship, events can strain things at times, but as they’ve proven in their two decades of working together, the “three-headed monster” of Tinker Hatfield, Mark Smith and Michael Jordan have continually found the right balance to create landmark footwear. Sole Collector caught up with Tinker Hatfield, Nike’s Vice President of Special Projects, and Mark Smith, Jordan Brand Creative Director, at The Point, Jordan Brand’s hidden lair that doubles as both design space and showroom.
Nick DePaula: Where did the inspiration behind the Air Jordan 2010 come from, and when did this project start?
Tinker Hatfield: Virtually every shoe has always started with some initial inspiration, thought, some idea, example or something from somewhere. A lot of times, the best shoes start with Michael’s own state of being or future state. I think that this shoe is a good example of not really looking at so much an external source of inspiration, but his own personal approach to life and playing basketball.
It was one of those unique meetings. Normally, before I would even have a meeting with Michael, I’d already have some sketches and some idea that popped up, just as a starting point. In this case, we purposefully wanted to talk to him in Vegas. And he shined us. [laughs] He dissed us. Heisman’d us. [laughs] So we caught him again a few weeks later here, but I was upset with him after that.
Mark Smith: I was the marriage counselor. I sat the two loving factions together, in this room right here. [laughs]
Hatfield: It was in this room. I’m going, “I’m not even going to do a sketch then. Forget it.” Sometimes things happen for a reason, I guess, and maybe he was just busy in Vegas or something. It’s Vegas, you know? [laughs] So we ended up finally meeting later, in this room here, and instead of showing him sketches or some sort of pre-determined inspiration and ideas, we both decided that we should just have more of a heart-to-heart talk before we actually did any sketches.
So, the conversation ultimately revolved around this whole notion that Michael himself, as an individual and also as a player, keeps his cards pretty close to the vest. But, like a good poker player, he’ll show you some cards, and you’ll think you know what he’s got in his hand. During a basketball game, he’d show this side to the opponent, maybe show some tendencies, show him what he’s doing in the game, and let him look into his game a bit with a certain level of transparency, but it would be carefully scripted by Michael to almost fool the adversary or the competition. Then, he would do something completely out of character—completely different—during a critical point in the game.
It was this idea of transparency, or allowing someone to see in, but not being able to see everything, and then what you don’t is what gets you. We talked about that quite a bit, and I totally understand that strategy as an athlete and also having worked with athletes. It’s completely unusual. I think Michael elevated this strategy to its highest level, and I don’t think anyone has come close to doing it. I know that Kobe is doing it a little bit himself these days, but I think Michael is still the king of it.
Immediately, as we moved along in the conversation, the conversation evolved into, “Well, what if you could see through part of the shoe?” That was really where it started. I did a little thumbnail in the meeting itself, which we showed Michael, but he doesn’t really get too excited about sketches or drawings that much. They’re more for ourselves. When we met with him for the second time, we brought him things that he could pick up and look at and comment on.
Smith: He really liked that, and we just kept trying different areas of the shoe that we wrap different panels over, but he responded to this one [seen above] the most positively. He said it was better than a sketch, and he liked seeing it in 3D and having an idea of where it was going. If you really look at it, the original design is pretty close to the final product.
Hatfield: I think what we also talked about pretty simultaneously was that maybe the past couple of years, and maybe even the past four or five years, that shoes had gotten more and more elaborate and more costly.
Smith: Back to basics.
Hatfield: Back to basics!
Smith: It was like, let’s just put a basic basketball shoe together and make it with all of the components that will make it the best basketball shoe.
NDP: Can you talk about the chemistry that you guys have together and how you work? This is, of course, one of many Jordans you’ve co-designed.
Hatfield: You know, it used to be that I was the lead designer, and then Mark would supplement that with some other stuff, and then we’d go back and forth a bit. It’s a bit different and a different dynamic now that he’s the Creative Director of the whole brand. It seems like his imprint on these shoes is bigger and more up front than before. The reality is, we’ve been working together for all of these years, and it seemed like this was like old times, where we were just having fun and trying to solve a problem and make it look good and all of those things. I thought that was pretty neat, and we hadn’t done that in a couple years.
Smith: Chemistry is good.
Hatfield: It’s good, and you throw MJ in there, and we all sort of talk in shorthand and finish each other’s sentence sometimes, and I think that chemistry between the three of us is really what, if I was a story writer, it would be all about—that three-headed monster and [how] we can really get this shoe to where it needs to go. MJ is not here all of the time … but he’s very important to the process and definitely brings things to the table. Mark and I are more about cranking it out on a day-to-day basis. Then, of course, you have the other people who are actually putting in the long hours at the factory and in the sample rooms. It seemed like old times with this one, though.
Smith: It was like old times, and one of the things when I took this job [in May of 2008] was being able to say, “OK, well what are we going to do with this shoe?” I talked to D’Wayne [Edwards], the Footwear Design Director, and I knew the next shoe was coming up, and I said, “Do you have a problem with me calling up Tinker?” He said, “Of course not!” So, one of the first things I did when I took this job was call Tinker and say, “Do you wanna do another shoe?”
Hatfield: I’m saying, “I thought we were done with the XX3!!!” [laughs]
Smith: I’m like, “Yeah, cool, so let’s do another one!” [laughs]
Hatfield: I knew it was coming.
Smith: That was fun to be able to make that call, and I didn’t know what the schedule was going to be like, but it was going to work.
So, is this going to be your last Air Jordan then, or in three months are you starting on a new one?
Hatfield: No, this was pretty fun, and I didn’t even have to work that hard, either. [laughs] We got the system down, and we’re busy on some other stuff right now that I can’t talk about.
What more do you have to tackle? You’ve done mostly all of the Jordans and a bunch of classic runners. What more is there to do from the Jordan Brand side?
Hatfield: I think, actually, I think it’s harder now than it was all the years before, because Michael’s not playing, number one, and there’s so much that’s been done. I think it’s a more difficult process now to figure out where we’re going to go next. We have a really good idea of where to go from here, which we can’t talk about, but there’s a lot to do.
People have asked me before, “You’ve been doing shoes for 20-some-odd-years now, are you bored?” My standard answer, and it’s still a good answer for today, is that I don’t even think of these things as sneakers. Each one is like a project that’s got its own life and its own process, and sometimes the team members change and its got a new technology, but I don’t even think of them as sneakers, or otherwise maybe it would get boring after all of these years. I don’t even think like that, and it might as well have been a car. I think we can keep going for a while. You can [points to Mark]; you’re still young.
Smith: Not that young! [laughs]
On that note of just general projects, you’ve designed things like the scoreboard at Hayward Field and other projects for the University of Oregon. Are there some other things that you’d love to design, like furniture or other random stuff?
Hatfield: I am doing a fair amount of architecture these days, and I’m working with the Trail Blazers to help redesign an entire neighborhood here around the Rose Garden. I’m consulting on a lot of projects, and I do a lot of stuff with universities. That’s another reason why it’s great to work on these projects, and I don’t have to baby-sit these things, too, because there are other people who are really good at that, and then I can go on and work on other stuff.
I’m in a real good creative zone right now, and I just came in from my studio this morning, ’cause I was over there working on some can’t-talk-about projects. [laughs] I’ve been drawing on my iPhone even. This has just been blowing everyone away, because I’m like Mr. Can’t-Even-Run-My-Own-Email in terms of being a computer guy. [laughs] I’ve learned how to draw on an iPhone, and it’s really sketchy and loose, and I can hold my finger on this little screen, and it’s real neat. I can’t tell you about the projects, though!
Something you guys can talk about is the logo on the tongue celebrating the 25th year and the way it reads both 23 and 25. How is that going to set the imagery for how we’ll be seeing the brand all year long?
Smith: Tinker alluded to it, and as we go forward with the circle theme, it’s just about the purity of the circle, and with the Jumpman there, nothing can touch it. That’s real performance for us. From a Jumpman perspective, we’re looking at how we can incorporate that into all of our performance products, and that becomes this circle Jumpman. What we like about the franchise shoe is that it has its own personality, where you really don’t need to sell a whole lot on it. You know it’s the shoe, and we like the idea of using one Jumpman, and then also this 23 logo, where if you look at it, it’s a 23 and then also a 25. Although this isn’t the Jordan XX5, we call it the 25, so I guess it’s a little personal insight that we kind of get away with, ’cause we can. [laughs]
I was reading through this sketch here, Tinker, and there are some notes about what you’d like to see Michael’s role in the brand be. What were you thinking about as you were jotting some of those things down?
Hatfield: When we start a conversation with him, it’s not just about sneakers; it’s about all kinds of stuff. Like Mark said, I did not appreciate being dismissed in Vegas. After all of these years, it was like, “What?!” It was really more of a misunderstanding, but when we got back together, the conversation was about personal relationships and loyalty and things that brothers or really good friends can talk about. It wasn’t an easy conversation to have with Michael, because he’s such a big star, but he’s also like a long-term friend and almost a brother. So we started talking about things like, “Is it time to be more political? Is it time to think about what all of our roles are in the world of sports at large?” Just being role models and stuff like that.
I started making sketches and notes, and one of the conversations here is I really think that MJ, probably since he doesn’t play, I personally think he should become more visible on some other issues. He’s a little reluctant to do that, because he feels like that’s a private thing, but I feel like he could help people out by being what he is. He’s a natural-born leader, but he sometimes shies away from doing that. So there was that conversation. It wasn’t like we totally resolved it, but it’s just one of those things where it’s like, if I understand, and Mark and I both have a good feel for what we think is important, and then we have a good feel for what Michael thinks is important, and then we invite in some other people that we invite into this process, then we are way more apt to be successful and do something meaningful with this project. That doesn’t just mean the shoe itself, but the communication and the values behind the shoe. Just like the conversation we’re having today, there are a lot of things that go into the shoe in PR and advertising and marketing, and then, of course, the honesty that drives it all. The honesty comes from the original story and the original conversations and the original issues that we might want to bring up. So we did, and it was actually a great thing.
So it was more of a heart-to-heart than a design meeting there?
Hatfield: At first.
Smith: That’s how it started, and it was like, you almost needed to clear the air a bit and lay it down that we can only speak to and treat each other a certain way. Once we put it on the table, we were all good, and there were no major issues. It’s just that we didn’t align [in Las Vegas]. Now that we were aligned, let’s get to work. What was nice about that was it was a great in-depth, person-to-person way to get into the design process, versus just sitting down and saying, “Great, what are we going to do for the next shoe?” That’s not that cool. This was a nice way to reconnect and put some stuff out on the table and make it a really great entry. It was honest, and it was family.
Hatfield: I just basically talked about what was important to me and my career, and felt like maybe we hadn’t communicated enough for me to actually feel like I could do a good job and to also actually even feel good about the project. Michael thought about it and said, “You know, I realize that maybe we should get together a bit more.” It was kind of a little bit of a reset. I was a little bit nervous about bringing some of that stuff up, but on the other hand, I think it helped us get off on the right foot, and maybe it set Michael up to be even more successful as he moves through other things in his life. We all go through it, and I get yelled at by my wife about every other day it seems for not paying attention or something. [laughs] I say “I’m sorry” a lot at my house. [laughs]
You can pre-order the Jordan 2010 issue by clicking here (cover below).
Tags: air jordan 2010, jordan, Jordan Brand, Mark Smith, michael jordan, tinker hatfield
38 Responses to “Tinker, Mark & Michael : The Three-Headed Monster”
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Copyright © 2010 Sole Collector Magazine.
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i wonder why the xi’s are missing in the pic
First thing that came to my mind as well.
no surprise there!!
They were being used for a photoshoot. Apparently a more important one…ha!
Do you know that for sure cuz i see them on a higher shelf but in bred colorway.
yea the 11-s are there on the 2nd pic in the orignal color towards to top .
The pair sitting on the shelf is definitely the 2010…no XI’s are pictured at all, but either way, I’m as bummed as everyone else
The pair towards the top is definitely the 2010′s…there are no XI’s in the pictures, but regardless I’m as bummed as everyone else!
Wtf ok im pretty pissed rite bout now lol where da hell r da 11s da back o dat pic dere da seakers i wantd a mot dis year dat a da ones wtf man lol
WHAT??
Yea im not sure what ur trying to say either
Awesome interview, it’s great to see Tinker’s focus is always on the creative process, that’s what will keep your designs fresh.
Wow this was a very nice reading man,awesome job guys!!!
Cant wait for the Jordan Issue, always full of great tech info which I love reading about!!
^^^ Couldn’t have said it better Nick. And where is that damn 11? Haha
lol foreal the first thing i thought about this post…hmmm these J’s in all white are pretty cool OH HELL NO! where r the 11′s lmao!
look closer to the 2nd pic the 11′s r there but not in silver
To Ricky, please use proper grammar nobody knows what the FUCK you are talking about, and yes the XI are there they are on a shelf above the rest of the shoes in the BRED colorway, but none the less great story.
That’s funny — it definitely looks like the Black/ Red XI above the rest of the shoes, but that’s actually a pair of the Air Jordan 2010 in the launch colorway.
My bad after a closer look I guess those are the 2k10′s
Thank you Nick…I posted that up top, guess I should of read more
Can’t wait for this jordan issue, so I won’t read this article to save me for the actual issue!!! lol
^ The article in the issue is three times longer too!
Nice, I was gonna wait for the mag too, but if its longer, a little head start won’t hurt.
And I’m putting the 2010 on my list of shoes to try and hoop in! (along with many others)
Same for me. I’m dying to read it but I’ll be like Guru and have some discipline. It will be that much better.
Sounds like there was too much conversation and not enough good designing.
Great read, has me excited for the Jordan issue. That “Silver Anniversary” collection in the back is nice as well!
Can’t wait to see what they got coming in the future! I buyin the 2010!
Did Jordan really ‘diss’ Tinker?
Tinker’s a large part of MJ success, he should should more respect.
wtf where r the xis those r the 1s i want the most i c the breds buti got them in da colorway
I love that collection of white Jordans… i wish they released all of those colorways because i would definitely consider trying to collect every all white pair… it looks real nice in the pic
Im watin on the V’S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at Mark Smith’s shoes…Figured he’d be rockin a fresh crisp pair of J’s but looks like something he bought at Kohls shoe department…hah!
I love seeing Tinker wearing that sweatshirt.
GO DUCKS!!!!
Just read the article in the Jordan issue…Awesome!! So much passion and craftsmanship goes into J’s, which is probably why it’s the only shoe alot of us wear. Hope everyone enjoys the read as much as I did. And of course the other featured articles are very good and great to learn from.
I just got the mag last week (located in the Netherlands) and a very nice article. What a preview is this btw, that’s much more than a preview!
Nice too see I’m not the only one noticing these XI’s missing. But forget the XI’s, what’s the deal with all these all-white colorways!? I totally love them!
Oh if only I was with Nike…